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I've left jugs of A/F and oil outside in the cold and it never froze if this counts.

I use A/F to balance my tires as I don't like external wheel weights.

Its actually the possible "hot weather" cooling benefits that I'm mostly interested in.

Possibly the folks formulating A/F want to sell premix for the same price as pure...

There are many manufacturer recommendations that are not always 100%.

I don't roll up my pants but I do like to experiment, I even use Red Tek refrigerant.

I do mix engine oils against recommendations and and I never torque to yield.

Pope brought up an interesting theory and I will test it.

Thanks
Randy
 
Huh, I never would have thought about running straight antifreeze. Maybe I will try this in the winter to get my truck to warm up faster. 318's just seem to be cold natured. Also, I havent heard anyone mention the "Evans waterless coolant" Seems like this would be a good idea. Probably similar to 100 percent green antifreeze but with more transfer ability. What about that chrysler antifreeze used in the LH cars. [maybe others]. Can that stuff be replaced with the normal green antifreeze without worrying about water pump problems
 
Huh, I never would have thought about running straight antifreeze. Maybe I will try this in the winter to get my truck to warm up faster. 318's just seem to be cold natured. Also, I havent heard anyone mention the "Evans waterless coolant" Seems like this would be a good idea. Probably similar to 100 percent green antifreeze but with more transfer ability. What about that chrysler antifreeze used in the LH cars. [maybe others]. Can that stuff be replaced with the normal green antifreeze without worrying about water pump problems
As long as you get rid of all the original stuff out of the system, you can run the plain green anti-freeze in any system. The problems come when mixing different types of antifreeze.
 
do i have to use radiator flush before changing the antifreeze, or is there something household & simple ?

i've used a few drops of dawn dish soap to clean up a cooling system (w/water) after a head gasket went bad puking oil in the water..
 
If the system looks clean then there is no need to use chemicals. Just flush it with clean water till everything coming out is clear. If you don't pull the block drains to get all the water out I like to dump a gallon of distilled water through to flush out the tap water.
 
Discussion starter · #26 ·
Here is my take on the indiscriminate mixing of coolant types:

In brief, it's not typically a good idea and a system designed to run 'green' should be filled with green. And the same can in GENERAL terms be said for the other colors.

Here are some things to consider if you are into details and a little supposition (perhaps common sense and/or experience) on my part:

Some folks just take the yawn approach to what goes on between consenting chemicals in the steamy privacy of a car's cooling system. It's just not me because of a recent check that was written to the machine shop for aluminum welding services to replace material in some places in a cylinder head that did it. Funny how much aluminum went AWOL in the 30-some years since that engine left the factory, enough to leave gaskets hanging in midair.

Funny? I laughed all the way to Coolant College and did a little Googling.

Modern antifreeze, is 96-percent ethylene glycol, which provides the freeze protection, and four-percent additives...typically. When you dilute that blend 50-50 with water, as the makers intend, you push down the freeze point to minus 34 degrees Fahrenheit. In normal circumstances, you also gain corrosion resistance . . . for a while. The freeze protection is permanent, but the additives are consumed in battle, so to speak.

About half the additive is made of buffers to control acid buildup; the other half is corrosion inhibitors to protect metals.

Perhaps the battle is already going badly in your car. A sticking thermostat can be an early indicator. The next stage: As detritus migrates through the system, it settles in the most confined spaces. If your heater blows cold, uh-oh.

I was hoping that technology, as it marches relentlessly toward obsoleting everything I own, might also have created new antifreeze formulas that would bring forbearance and frustration to the chemicals frolicking under my aging radiator caps.

Of course, no doctor writes the prescription before he considers the patient. The "old" antifreeze technology started in the '60s, improved in the '70s, and was superseded in cars of the '90s by two new technologies. It turns out that an antifreeze transplant into older cars will work fine with one of the new types; the other will probably kill the patient.

The old technology, a.k.a. "conventional," a.k.a. "inorganic," is green in color. Most of what you see on the shelves at Wal-Mart and AutoZone is conventional, including the yellow bottles of Prestone and the white bottles of Zerex.

One of the new types is "organic acid technology," or OAT. It's orange. General Motors pioneered this chemistry starting with 1996 models in the U.S. and using the name Dex-Cool. Ford changed a few models to OAT, then backed away from it. VW, Audi, and Porsche are OAT users, too, but most others have resisted.

Instead of OAT, most new cars now use a "hybrid" antifreeze that's formulated with both OAT and the silicate inhibitors from green (Japanese hybrids have different inhibitors). It comes in too many colors to pretend this type is color-coded. Interestingly, the materials improve for the white plastic overflow bottles of new cars, and they become less yellowing over time, automakers are becoming more venturesome in choosing coolant colors.

The promise of OAT is long-life corrosion protection, on the order of six years/ 100,000 miles for the initial fill instead of the two years/50,000 miles that was typical with the old green stuff. The GM Dex-Cool formula works fine in systems designed for it. But it eats old-style radiators with lead solder, and the inhibitors work too slowly to protect against the sort of corrosion that happens so fast it actually erodes metal-for example, the cavitation likely in the imperfectly designed water pumps of older cars.

"Cars born with green coolant shouldn't be changed to orange," It's also a bad idea to mix the two, although the result doesn't immediately turn into witches' brew.

I theorize that coolant technology is driven by the makers of new cars to solve new-car problems (same with motor oil.) By the time a car gets old enough to be interesting to a collector, the latest antifreeze blends have moved on to protecting newer alloys and gasket materials. Fortunately, the aftermarket lives by catering to older cars.

As for those aging turbo Dodge cars of the 80's and early 90's we're keeping around as playmates, no matter what brand green antifreeze we choose, and no matter how often we replace it, the best medicine is to play often. Coolant down in narrow crevices can become isolated, then overwhelmed by corrosion. Once it starts, the best you can hope for is a stalemate. You can't undo corrosion. To keep protection active in all the crannies, the system needs to be heated and circulated every 30 days. This is by recommendation of the engineers at Zerex.

Obvious question: What about the water we mix in? As mentioned in my original post, coolants are designed to work with "reasonable" levels of hardness and chlorides in tap water. But magnesium and calcium, the hardness ions, unquestionably contribute to scale and deposits, which hurt cooling efficiency. And chlorides are corrosive. Distilled water gets rid of all the worries. (It was $.98 cents a gallon at my local Wal-Mart yesterday. Or you can buy "predilute" coolant already mixed and ready to go.

In my vision of purgatory, I'll be sentenced to changing antifreeze in all my cars, day after day, and some archangel with white gloves and a test tube will be checking the color of my flush water for contaminates. I have to keep flushing until he can't tell the drain-out from the distilled he carries in another tube as the control.

Here in this life, I've always changed my coolant. I'm one of those guys who agonize over details. So the job takes a full afternoon for each car. I drain everything that comes out through the cock, then top up with clear water, warm the engine, and run the heater to circulate fully, then drain again. Repeat twice.

What to do with the drainings? I called the local pollution controllers. Antifreeze? Their book had no mention of it. After thinking a bit, however, they told me to put it out back in buckets and let it evaporate. Rocks evaporate at about the same speed.

Old coolant "hanging up" in the system is a real concern. But we also know that nobody gets it all out.

If you open a drain cock or drop a bottom hose, you might get 50 to 60 percent out. The best machines, the new ones going into Valvoline quick-oil-change shops, get 80 to 85 percent. This is a manageable level of contamination, as long as the new antifreeze doesn't fight with the old.

Don't mix and drive!
 
You can try running one CLR through it, then reverse flush it and heater core really well.
 
I always flush my cooling systems out with 100% Distilled White Vinegar. It's cheap, cools 99% as effective as pure water and really cleans out the cooling system. It's safe on our engines in all respects. I never leave it in for more than twelve hours. The car can be used for short trips with no problems. This is an old-skool steam boiler trick that works great. It really gets the heater core and radiator clean. I fill the entire system with vinegar, no water. Don't do it in the cold, obviously. Then flush with the garden hose while running thoroughly. Then mix distilled water with glycol. I also replaced the plug in the water box with a brass petcock to purge the air out.

McMaster-Carr
 
I haven't and don't plan too.. because of the decreased cooling efficiency. that said i find the low pressure operation very appealing

http://lancair.net/lists/flyrotary/Message/29831-02-B/COMPARISON OF COOLANT PARAMETERS.doc

Specific Heat

Looking at this table, the first thing that caught my attention is that given the specific heat of Evans NPG+ that you lose approx. 1-0.64 = .36/1 = 36 % of your coolant capacity compared to pure water just due to its lower Specific heat. Now the lost is not as great when compared with the more typical 50/50-glycol/water mixture, there the loss drops to 16%. Less, but still considerable. A statement is made:
 
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