It's the FWD "stage 3". (Single bar, stock mixture with raised overboost cutout) I replaced the injectors (804), fuel rail, FPR, and injector harness when I did this set. The ECU is a common factor. I guess I can go ahead and pull the head at this point, too.

I know people had been trying (and failing) to adapt an A604 to these motors, but has anyone done any successful OD transmission mating on these?

 

Probably just use a bore scope and see if the pistons are pitting again.

At this point just grab a transmission that you know works. And be super diligent on not letting anything get into the cooler lines or any other orifice.

 

Any reason why not just putting in a manuwell box?

 

Ev conversion……..


just kidding

 

@Tonatom To be honest, the only things I like about the car are the interior and the exterior. I would have to swap the bench seats. (They're not soft split bench like a K car, and the K shifter won't fit.) I'd have to remove most of the center console. Also, just finding compatible shifter and linkage is nearly impossible anymore. My friend has an 86, and he's been slowly collecting parts for a conversion for over two years.

@d_snook6 You're not the first person to say that. In theory, it's a pretty good platform for an EV conversion.

 

I finally got around to yanking the head. Pistons 1 to 4 look like new. (I haven't pulled them, so I don't know if they cracked ring lands. It's unlikely, since compression seems even. I also haven't checked the crank. The motor spins smoothly now, after having reversed it and turned it forward, so I suspect the trans locked it up.)

The head gasket looked normal, except that the coolant passage on the trans side looked unusually squished in, and cylinder 3's gasket ring was an oval. I didn't see any crossed fluids.

However.....

And yes, that's a new machinist's flat edge, and yes, I checked against other heads to make sure.

I only had a couple hours today to pull parts off, but I plan to pull the pistons and inspect the crank, just to be safe. If they look normal, I'll assume the block is good.

 

1 and 4 chambers on the head almost look cleaner, head gasket leaking?
Did you take a picture of the gasket?

 

Oh, I didn't take a picture of the gasket, but I didn't see any obvious breaches. The pistons actually look pretty even to the eye, but the camera adjusted the color levels.

 

Motor and trans are out, as is all of the wiring and electronics from the firewall forward. Storing the car indefinitely while I figure out what to do. I'll tear the engine back down, and I might as well tear the transmission down as well.

I looked it up. I've driven this car 20k miles and pulled the engine four times since I owned it. I've averaged more engine removals than oil changes on this car.

 

I've been following your adventures and misadventures. And I sympathize with your plight.
You have probably got alot of practice at swapping motors and pulling axles and all that stuff (and can do it in your sleep!). I have had similar problems over the years. The A-604 had a lot of problems too. I had help from a local member who worked at the local Dealership, Timberline Dodge (way back in the day) when I was a member of PNWSDAC, the Pacific Northwest Shelby Dodge Auto Club.
I have not really had any trouble with the Manual 520 transmission, but I have always wished for more gears than a simple 3-speed automatic. Here is a link to some of the development stories about the A-604 from Allpar: (be sure to click: --more)
Swapping A-604 Automatic Transmissions from Chrysler to Chrysler | Allpar Forums

 

Ahhhh yes, the A604. I used to watch for deals on Grand Caravans that "run but need a transmission". I bought about half a dozen. Well, actually I got a few for free. Jiffy Lube was offering their transmission power-flush service at the time, and if it seemed like the electric chatter hadn't worn it out, it was a sure bet to fix the transmission by having them flush it TWICE. Once was never enough.

Of course, I had the same question that many of us had. Is there any way to mate the A604 to the good ol' slant four? I don't think anyone has ever done it. In fact, I'm not aware of any good conversions. However, I heard that the 62TE can be made to work. That sound insane to me, but I've heard it from three different people so far, one of whom has shoehorned a twin turbo LS into a 350Z.

 

Yes, I am always looking for ways to improve my ride. Audi has an electric-powered compressor that can sppol the turbine to 70,000 rpm is less than 0.25 seconds! It is in the QS7 TDI, but only in Europe. I like to hear about innovators who do new things. My '89 Lancer Shelby is running great, but now I am having the old plastic pieces breaking on the interior, such as the handle to my emergency brake release. I haven't been able to find new window slides either.
One idea is to replace the plastic with metal.
I have pulled a few engines in my time, but mostly I like driving them, not working on them.

 

I used to have a detailing business, and one thing we did was minor internal restoration. I bought a jumbo sized 3D printer, CNC, laser cutter, vinyl cutter, and resin printer for the purpose of reproducing larger parts in a car that just can't be found. It definitely wasn't worth it. :-D

I'm still working on my Laser, which has been driving great. Work has been keeping me from making much progress on some things like the Raspberry Pi dash and new paint. I've picked up another 2nd generation Altima to turbocharge as well, and I think that's going to be my daily unguided missile car. My target is only 300 horsepower for that little 2.4L, but others have regularly done 700+. One maniac hit 1,500 with a KA24DE using a Holset turbo and nitromethane, and the only internals he changed were the pistons. I made a thread on Nissan Forums, but nobody ever goes there: https://www.nissanforums.com/threads/project-log-another-boosted-altima.284364

I wish I knew what my goal was for the New Yorker now. I wanted it to continue to be the New Yorker while pushing some big boost numbers, but maybe I just need to get myself a 1986 wiring harness, switch back to LM, drop in the spare 1986 2.2 T1, and save it for local car shows. I love driving the New Yorker, but it's a lemon, and I don't think that's ever going to change no matter what I put in it.

 

Friends, I come to you again asking for advice. And I wish I could pay you for the help you've given me already. My hope is that at least my experiences are helping others as well.

Since the New Yorker blew its head, transmission, and computer, I stole the TO3 from it to put into one of my boosted Altima's. It ran great at 5 PSI...for about half a mile, then it blew a seal. To be fair, it's a 40 year old turbo. I've been gradually setting aside parts to try once again to rebuild the New Yorker, but now I don't even have any good TO3 turbos. I have six bad ones, and only one of them may be rebuildable. I feel fairly confident in either machining an exhaust manifold for T4 flange or modifying a T4 flange turbo to fit the Turbo Dodge flange. (I think it's internally called TE flange or something.) Does anyone have a suggestion for a decent aftermarket turbo? I don't plan on spending $1,975.00 on a new Borg Warner, and I've seen stories on these forums of DOA rebuilds from TU and FWD, so I don't think a rebuild is the way to go either. The Laser has a TE04H, and I have three more good TE04H's. I think they're bulletproof. However, they just aren't big enough to keep blowing hard at high RPM.

(And yes, I checked car-part.com. The remaining Garrett's are tapped out. Besides, I'm really not believing the hype around Garrett anyway. They breathe well, but they just don't seem to last.)

Then there are $100-ish turbos on eBay. .63 AR, oil and water cooled, T3/T4, and suspiciously low price. Boy are there a lot of them! I did a little reading, and some people tell stories about them pulling hard pass-after-pass and not showing any signs of wear. In a world of AI review whorebots, I don't know what to trust.

I'm willing to put a little more money into the New Yorker once again. I've got another head and another SBEC. I'm pretty sure that the transmission I rebuild is good, but I will have to swap the VB and pump. I stole the exhaust to put into the Laser, but I had meant to redo it anyway to eliminate the rattle and knock around the rear frame.

I'm also having an enormous blast boosting 2nd gen Altima's, which want about the same metrics as the 2.5 slant four. So I'm hoping I can find a good turbo for my TD's and my KA's.

 

The seal on that Turbo is metal it actually can't blow what's probably happening is there's too much oil pressure and it's not draining fast enough.

It happened on my prototype drain to the PAN set up I had to use the straight down to the block drain for it not to smoke. Oil was puddling in the drain hose.

If you look up 1986 Chrysler Lebaron there's dozens of them still from the junkyard $100 or less.

I run them 3 times normal boost they don't smoke or use any oil one of them was from a junkyard it actually had a rag stuck in it for a couple miles till I realized it and it still works fine.

Those eBay turbos are good for projects not daily drivers they don't have fully supported bearings or seals.

 

I'm just not seeing them. They're starting 140 miles away from me for damaged units at $300. The seal is nearly gone on the one from the Altima. The shaft flops left, right, in, out. I got the oil feed from the oil pressure switch, and the Altima runs 50 PSI at 2k, which is the same as the 2.2/2.5. The feed line is 1/8", same as the TD. The return is the same port, on the lower side of the turbo, draining right into the front of the pan using oversized EPDM. I even reused the oil tee from the TD 2.5, so the port ratios are all the same. I really can't think of any bad conditions the KA24DE put the TO3 under. Besides, the Mitsubishi's run on the KA's all day long at 12 PSI, and they don't even have BOV's on them.

I was hoping you would say something like, "Try the such-and-such brand aftermarket turbo for $500. It's fairly decent." 😞 I would take a used OEM over an eBay "new lower price upgrade version" turbo any day. Too bad anything in the used market usually has bizarre car-specific bolt patterns.

 

Are you running a Blow off valve?

Without one the bearings will get damaged from compressor surge.

I think you're describing the bearings being loose the journal bearings use oil pressure to keep the shaft suspended and in line.

This is what I'm finding I just set the search for USA obviously you're going to have to have them ship it since the parts are pretty far away.

When I did that oil drain to the PAN it was smoking like crazy what was happening was the oil in the PAN caused it to backup in the drain hose. Once I switched to a drain above the oil level it's Not smoking.

 

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Have you considered just doing some port work on the mitsu turbo exhaust housing, specifically the wastegate hole. There is a wide variety of compressor upgrades that would work as well, all depends on your budget. I am still in the testing/tuning phase of my upgraded Mitsu, I wasn’t looking for big power but I do plan to push it to 14psi and hopefully get some dyno numbers. Already with my mods combined with the mitsu I have had to add a bunch of fuel, 10psi on base pressure which is like 18%, so it’s definitely make more power.

The biggest question is your hp goal, this will really determine what turbo you should be looking for.

T3/T4 46trim would be a great choice if the goal is to be over 300hp, but good and cheap don’t go together.

I started making a Subaru turbo adapter plate, it’s doable but you really need to commit to it as the exhaust manifold would need to be ported in such a way that it wouldn’t work for a stock turbo again.

 

The main reason I suspect the turbo and not the way it was configured is that it's exactly in the same configuration as the Mitsubishi was. Well, that and the overall state of the turbo itself. This particular unit is the one that came in the New Yorker originally when it was a 7 PSI log setup. (I don't think the 1985 T1 has a BOV.) The shaft had only slight play when I installed it into the New Yorker.

The other bad TO3's are from a 1000 mile motor from a wrecked 1986 Shadow, the 1986 Laser, and three I bought from salvage yards over the years. The 1000 mile one was completely seized up, but I used some PB Blaster and got it to move. I filled it with oil and can now get it to spin using the suction side of a shop vac, but it still stops instantly once I remove the vacuum line. I was able to remove the EGR fitting and O2 sensor with my pocket adjustable wrench...the seller was definitely being honest about the low miles! I'm going to try to install that one today.

@james Great find on the turbo! Not a ton of info in the listing, but it definitely looks like the T2 housing

@d_snook6 That's probably a good answer. The TE04H was honestly getting close to my HP goals on both the TD's and the KA's. It was spooling up way too fast on the KA, and it was slamming a ton of torque into the transmission at low RPM. I got a couple bad TE04H's from an eBay seller. I was refused refunds, so I decided to try rebuilding them, and it was really simple. Wheel upgrades should be a breeze, no pun intended. I'm not sure where to shop for compressor wheels, though, and any suggestions would be much appreciated! My goal is under 300 HP on all of these applications, since these are daily street drivers running stock transmissions.

 

I would try using a oil restrictor or redirect the drain.

Those log engines didn't need blow off valves because there was no throttle blade closing causing compressive surge on the log engines the throttle body is before the Turbo.

I had one Turbo when I put oil into the line just to lubricate it actually leaked out into the exhaust but when it was on the car it didn't smoke or leak anything.

If you're looking for a bigger Turbo I would go with one of the smaller Cummins. I think HY35 Would be the best bet.

It's an open secret everyone uses these turbos you can get them from the junkyard cheap and they don't need coolant running through them they can have 300,000 miles on them and work.

hy35 or ? - www.ka-t.org

 

"I would try using a oil restrictor or redirect the drain." -- I owe you, @arieskcar The oil return was probably backing up into the turbo. The oil level is right up to the bung. I don't want to relocate the bung, but it looks like I'm clear when I leave the oil just a touch below it. I still don't know how the turbo went from mostly smooth and tight to wobbling and sloppy in just half a mile of driving. The oil and filter were new, as were all of the IC lines and the IC itself. I used compressed air and a shop vac while assembling the lines, too. I just think this turbo was already on its last legs.

And oh duh, the T1's were not blow-through throttles. 🤦‍♂️ Well, in any case, three of the turbos definitely came from log setups their entire lives. I can't speak for the three junkyard ones, since I didn't pull them.

That HY35 is a monster. If I ever get around to finishing the '01, that would be fun to consider. A different set of pistons, and it should be good to the 500 HP range. I haven't checked to see if the RE4F04V is compatible with the RE4F04A, or if I can at least transfer the internals. (The V was used on the VE30DE and is supposed to be a battleship of a transmission.)

 

That is awesome. Thank you so much! On the wheel you're running now, what motor is it on? Do you happen to know what sort of boost you're seeing at the top end range? Just a little bit better breathing over 4k would do wonders for the New Yorker. Did you use the stock housing, or does that wheel need a conversion?

 

2.5 CB with 782 head and 1 piece intake

Currently running stock boost control so 9psi, it builds boost quickly and I have a large front mount intercooler aswell.

Stock compressor housing but unfortunately I did need to do some clearancing, was really hoping for a drop in prefect fit.
https://www.turbododge.com/threads/stock-mitsu-turbo-compressor-upgrade.1260622/#replies

My build thread has pictures of the exhaust housing porting that I did.

 

@arieskcar Ya know, I was thinking that a very easy oil pressure restrictor would be a pair of pliers on the metal hose. 😂 But then I thought about the orientation of the center housing. The return is lower than the supply, but only barely. The Mitsubishi didn't care at all. In fact, I had the supply UNDER the return during one test run, and it ran fine. Perhaps the Garrett really wants the return at the very bottom, not just lower. I'll give that a try.

(Hmm, this post ended up in the wrong thread, but when I came here to copy and paste it, there it was as a draft! 🤯 Silly tech playing tricks!)

 

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Well ain't that a cute turbo! And what a deal! I wonder what it came off of. That would be neat on the Versa. :-D

 

I think it came off of a Starion. I remember those engines being awful, but I think the turbos were solid. I'm talking with him about grabbing it. Thanks for the link!

 

A friend of mine who also owns a 1985 Chrysler New Yorker, even the same paint color, stopped by to ask me for some transmission help. He has loud noise coming from the transfer sprocket cover, and I lent him a 30mm socket and told him to check and see if the nuts just came loose. It happened to me, hopefully it happened to him. That would be convenient!

He also checked out the cavernous empty engine compartment in my New Yorker and said the same thing a few others have said: "Go electric."

I admitted to him that this is probably one of the few cases where an electric conversion is not a terrible fit, but we still both agreed that it wouldn't be right for the car. So, I need to do it again. It's probably going to be several months before I even attempt it, but I might as well start the list.

• SBEC: Either source another SBEC or get +40% injectors for the SBEC-II (Either I can get adapters for the 3000GT injectors I have, or I can buy a set of 4 from FWD.)
• SBEC Harness: I should also thoroughly check and maybe rebuild the wire harness. These are old plugs and corroded wires. It's also a huge disgusting mess.
• Turbo: I may have a rebuildable TO3 if I can get the broken bolts out. If not, I can buy a new one or theoretically just use a Mitsubishi. If I use the SBEC-II, I'll plan on going Garrett. If I get another one-bar SBEC, I'll go Mitsubishi.
• Block: I'm confident in the one I have. I'm pretty sure that the seize was from the transmission exploding and jamming up the TC. I'll pop the oil pan off and take a peek before putting everything together.
• A413: I'm pretty sure that the one I rebuilt is actually a good rebuild. I think I can move the VB from the most recently dead one to the one I rebuilt
• Cylinder Head: I have a few 782's, but since I don't know what happened to the one I did the chamber mod on, I might just pick the cleanest one I have and leave it unmodified
• Exhaust

You gotta know I love driving this car, or else I wouldn't subject myself to this kind of torture.

On a non-TD note, I'm not sure if I got the Altima turbo working right. I've clocked the CHRA so that the return is exactly straight down. To be honest, I should have done that to begin with, because the oil and coolant supply lines are easier to reach that way, but I'm always nervous to try cracking those exhaust-side locking bolts. In this case, the turbo is almost NOS, so it didn't put up a fight at all. I pinched the supply line. I drained some oil from the car until it was below the return line. I assumed there would still be a little oil burning off from what was poured into the exhaust, so I let it heat up for quiet a while. After about half an hour of driving, the smoke went away. I pulled it up to the garage door, and it started pumping smoke like a broken Halloween fog generator and just wouldn't stop. What in the world?? 😩 I'm this close to just putting the Mitsubishi back on.

 

With all the problems you're having with the transmissions I wouldn't use any parts that have been contaminated with metal it'll just end up destroying the other transmission.

I had the same problem with the Turbo smoking when I did this kind of drain when I put it back to the stock style same Turbo it doesn't smoke at all.

 

Oh, I have an update on the Garrett TO3 on the KA24DE. It finally stopped smoking. In fact, it's completely totally clean exhaust, even when brake-boosting. The only thing I can think is that clocking the CHRA completely upright solved the problem, but there was just that much oil still sitting in the exhaust pipes. That car runs awesome now. I can't believe there are still people out there in this world with 2nd generation Altima's that have not been turbocharged. So sad.

---

Unfortunately I don't think I can (or should) get another used A413. I'll be rebuilding an A413 again for the New Yorker. Once I finish cleaning out my garage (Cue hysterical laughter), I'll set up a full staging area for the transmissions. Not to start a flame war, but I'm convinced that the problems I'm having are primarily due to poor build quality. After all, this is a transmission that uses a hardware-store finish nail as an OEM part... I've been finding poorly drilled holes, over-drilled holes, under-tapped bosses, broken-off pieces of casting inside the transmissions, cracks, even hammer-marks where it looks like parts just weren't seating. I really hated rebuilding the first A413, and I missed a critical measurement (diff shims), but I'm pretty confident that these can be built much better than brand new. Keep in mind, I've done a few manual transmission teardowns, and I've rebuild or freshened up several each of QG18DE, KA24DE, VE30DE, VQ35DE, VQ40DE, K24, 2.2/2.5 and T3's, a 305, RE4F04A, a Subie 2.5...probably others. I'm not a mechanic, and I don't run a proper "garage". I use Bounty paper towels inside cylinders, and I wash parts with Dawn in a plastic sink. Still, I don't think my garage is targeting A413's to destroy and leaving the rest unharmed.

Now, there is one other possible cause for the repeated transmission problems, and it could be regional! The mechanics around here all swear by Type F. Should it work? Sure. Is it ideal? Not exactly. It can cause friction chatter, much like what happens with an A604 that's running the correct fluid. There might be a lot more debris running around inside transmissions that have been running on Type F for an extended period of time. Since all of the transmissions I've been buying are non-lockup, that Type F is probably dragging the TC constantly while on the highway. It's also very possible that the transmissions keep running just fine so long as they don't sit for too long, but when I get one from the junkyard, the non-magnetic material has started to sit in the bottom of the VB, settled in the pump, and maybe even thickened inside the TC. The one I rebuilt had a significant amount of wear on the low velocity drum, and I had to replace a couple of completely worn down parts.

 

I spent some time researching fluids and the reason they switched Away from Dex/Merc was because of the sulfur content causing wear. Type F is even more abrasive.

I'm sure people Drag Racing these cars use different fluids but those are not daily driven.
It's like aluminum connecting rods great for a couple races but then you have to throw them in the trash.

In testing done during development of ATF+4, Chrysler noted the following viscosity loss from shearing for the following ATFs (20 hour KRL Shear Test):

Dexron III - 40% loss
Mercon V - 19% loss
Type 7176D - 32% loss
Type 7176E - 14% loss (that's ATF+3)
Type 9602 - 10% loss

You can see what a significant impact the new viscosity improver had on ATF+3 when you compare the 7176D and 7176E numbers. From the standpoint of viscosity loss alone you can see why Dexron III should not be used in transmissions that require ATF+3 or ATF+4. In terms of other basic performance parameters, ATF+3 (7176E) comes the closest to ATF+4, with Ford’s Mercon V a close second. [Which doesn’t mean that Mercon is acceptable.]

Also I found out most of those multi vehicle fluids are not real and they're not even authorized at all for some reason the Walmart super tech Mercon LV is Ford authorized but the Castrol and the valvoline are NOT so I ended up using the Walmart in the Ford Fusion HYBRID.

Having owned 60 of these cars I've never had a single transmission failure.

In high school had a Plymouth reliant that lost all of its coolant and the only way you could tell (no temp gauge) was the transmission bucking because the radiator was empty trans fluid was boiling 😆

These transmissions have proven to be so reliable I don't even change the fluid anymore when I get the cars the last few haven't changed anything in years. The new filter kits are still sitting in the trunks.

 

This is what I run in my 413 in the daytona. Trans was built about 8 years ago and I haven't had a single issue with it.

 

According to AI that fluid is superior to type F it has friction modifiers and a flashpoint of 200c like Atf +4 instead of only 160c for type F that doesn't even have friction modifiers...