TBI

TURBO

 

My car is carbureted so would that still be the same as TBI?

 

No, carbureted cars use a mechanical fuel pump attached to the engine block.

If I remember correctly way back in the day Chrysler had an issue with fuel evaporation/vapor lock with the 2.2L carbs/engines so restarting after a hot shutdown resulted in long crank times.
They fixed this (actually just covered up the problem, the problem was eliminated with fuel injection) by installing an electric fuel pump so the carb bowl would be refilled with initial key on thus eliminating the long crank times.

Chrysler Fuel System Vapor Lock & Foaming TSB

Chrysler Workshop Service and Repair Manuals LeBaron L4-135 22L VIN B 2-bbl (1982) Powertrain Management > Fuel Delivery and Air Induction > Fuel Return Line > Component Information > Technical Service Bulletins > All Technical Service Bulletins for Fuel Return Line: > 181486 > Mar > 86 > Fuel...

workshop-manuals.com

Exactly what problems are you currently experiencing?

 

The cars not getting fuel. I even disconnected the fuel line from the carb and not even a drop came out. So is my fuel pump mechanical?

 

Yes, your pump is mechanical, follow the fuel lines down the front of the motor, pump should be below the distributor to the left a little bit.

 

Thank you thats gonna be a whole lot easier than dropping the tank. Guess I'll have to return the electric fuel pump I ordered from Rockauto yesterday 😂

 

1)If the car is carbureted then, yes you have a mechanical pump unless the TSB was performed back in the day, just look for the pump on the front of the engine block.
2)The mechanical fuel pump should be located on the right side (passenger) front of the engine block between the water pump housing and distributor.
3)Not getting fuel issues/problems can be related to a faulty fuel cap, clogged pickup tube sock in the fuel tank, clogged/restricted fuel filter, collapsed rubber fuel line or a faulty fuel pump.
a)I would recommend removing the fuel cap and see if the condition changes, the fuel in the tank expands as it gets hot, the cap has to be able to relieve this pressure (EVAP Systems) as the fuel cools down it contracts, the cap has to open to allow air to enter the tank or it will create a vacuum in the tank and preventing fuel from flowing.
I had this exact problem on my 72 Duster at the track, the car kept slowing down each round and it was a fuel cap issue not allowing air into the tank.
4)Testing a mechanical pump is quite easy.
a)You will need to remove the fuel inlet and outlet lines from the pump, if the lines thread into the pump I recommend using line wrenches so you do not round the nuts, and a brass fitting with a barbed end to thread into the fuel pump to attach the gauge, if you have rubber lines at the pump just remove the rubber fuel lines and attach a vacuum/pressure gauge and crank the engine.
b)SAE Line/Flare Wrenches

Amazon.com

Double-End SAE Flare Nut Wrench Set, 5 Piece

Amazing deals on this 5Pc Sae Double-End Flare Nut Wrench Set at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

www.harborfreight.com

c)Vacuum/Pressure Gauge Test Kit

Fuel Pump and Vacuum Tester

Amazing deals on this Fuel Pump /Vacuum Tester at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

www.harborfreight.com

d)On the inlet side, the gauge should read vacuum and hold, on the outlet it should read pressure, generally in the 4-6 PSI range on carbureted cars.

Fuel Pump

More Information for CARTER M60321

 

Alright, Thank you, I'll run by harbor freight and i'll pick up the tools sometime soon. I'll get back to you soon as I test it.

 

Back in the day there was a special lobe on the camshaft that ran the mechanical fuel pump, since this engine is an OHC I would assume the intermediate shaft that drives the oil pump and distributor is what is running the mechanical pump.
The pump (Mopar #4293802) fits all carbureted 2.2L engines from 84-86.
If you are going to install a known good used fuel pump you will need a new gasket.

Since the car is so far away, do not forget your Vacuum/Pressure gauge incase the pump is not the issue, be sure the timing belt did not break or the intermediate shaft will not be turning.

RockAuto | All The Parts Your Car Will Ever Need

Auto Parts for Your Vehicle at Reliably Low Prices. Fast Online Catalog. DIY-Easy. Your Choice of Quality. Full Manufacturer Warranty.

www.rockauto.com

 

Alright. I usually go there every weekend but I didn't last weekend. I'm going to go there and test it with the gauge and if the pump is the problem I'll rig up a temporary gasket and throw the lebarons pump on there. (if it's even there. The starter relay and carb were already missing.

 

Also, This may sound like a stupid question but, do I need to drain the oil to remove the fuel pump? I was just thinking that where it goes into the side of the engine the oil might come out.

 

No, you shouldn't have to drain the oil

 

Depending on the year and vehicle type, you may find a metal cage must be removed that surrounds the fuel pump. Chrysler did this for crash worthiness reasons. They didn't want to be known as the FWD Pinto (lol). Yes the mechanical pump contains an eccentric on the aux. shaft much like a cam lobe on a camshaft. If you can't easily bolt up the new fuel pump, turn the engine over a bit to get the aux. shaft off it's cam lobe. This would be similar to mechanical pumps on old school V8's.
BTW- 2.2 carb. cars were infamous for the charcoal canister media breaking down and getting ingested into the carb. should you find you still have issues after installing a new fuel pump. After cleaning carb. out, many owners installed a fuel filter in-line in the vapor line to catch any debris before it could be ingested, so cycle didn't repeat itself.

 

Yes the TSB added an electric fuel pump in front of the tank, there would also be added wiring and a fuel pressure regulator
1)Where did the power for the electric pump come from?
2)Is the circuit fused?
3)Where is the ground location?
4)Where is the FPR location?
5)What was used to kill power to the pump if the engine shut down so it did not keep pumping fuel?

I do not have a copy of the entire TSB showing installation.

Perhaps Todd (4 L-bodies) can shed some light on this.

 

Yes the TSB added an electric fuel pump in front of the tank, there would also be added wiring and a fuel pressure regulator
1)Where did the power for the electric pump come from?
2)Is the circuit fused?
3)Where is the ground location?
4)Where is the FPR location?
5)What was used to kill power to the pump if the engine shut down so it did not keep pumping fuel?

I do not have a copy of the entire TSB showing installation.

Perhaps Todd (4 L-bodies) can shed some light on this.

So is the pump in-line or would I have to drop the tank to get to it?

 

From everything I read the pump was placed inline in front of the fuel tank.

 

Would this be it? It’s on the side of the tank.

 

I contacted a member who has Alldata to see if he can locate the TSB which will show us the location of the pump and wiring.

 

Here is what was sent (Thanks to Bill Vose )apparently it is an intank pump.
It was sent as a PDF but I have no idea how to post a PDF to the forum so I converted it to JPG.
I did not yet have a chance to read over the entire bulletin but I would start by checking power and ground at the pump.

 

So would the pump be where I was trying to take the lock ring off the side of the tank?

 

 

It probably is, here is the TSB covering it:

 

A square piece of maybe 1/2" plywood will work better as whatever you are using has to fit between the tank hanger straps so it will come down without getting hung up on them. Take the filler neck loose at the pocket so it won't hang up also.

 

So should I disconnect the filler neck from the tank or the car?

 

I would not be dropping the tank until you have verified power and ground to the pump.

 

If It did happen to be a power issue could I run wires directly to the battery and just use a switch to turn it on or does it not have a return hose?

 

Why do you feel you may need a starter relay?

 

I don't know. I just saw it on the diagram and I didn't know if the relay also was required on the circuit.

 

The starter relay was already there, all they did was reroute the Yellow wire from the ignition switch through the Auto Shutdown Module.

 

If you are referring to the starter relay it is located underhood by the left (driver side) strut tower.

 

Yeah, the starter relay is what I need to replace, but I'll still be able to check the pump by jumping the relay like I have been. I'll go up there this weekend and try and check to see if I'm getting power at the pump.

 

According to the TSB, the Control Module is located next to the steering column, wire tied to an existing harness.

As far as the Starter Relay, there are 4 wires...
1)Red - Constant battery voltage from the + battery terminal
2)Yellow - Switched ignition voltage from the ignition switch. Power will only be present with the key in the "start" position.
In your case the YL wire was re-routed and now runs to the control module and from the control module to the starter relay.

3)Brown/Yellow - Ground, through the neutral safety switch on an Auto Trans or bolted directly to the transaxle case on a manual trans.
4)Brown - Output to the starter solenoid

 

Alright, I'll go up there this weekend and check. Do you think a test light or multimeter would be better?

 

It depends what you are testing, yes a 12 volt test lamp is easier and can be used to just check for power or ground in a circuit.
The test lamp will not tell you how much voltage is present nor can you check circuits for opens/shorts/excessive resistance with a test lamp.
My suggestion, take both and do not forget jumper wires, especially a long one to reach from the tank to the passenger compartment. You may also want to take some backprobe pins incase you need to check power ground while the component is still connected.

 

Alright I have a 30ft retractable test lead that should work good for that. I should be heading up there tomorrow but won’t get to work on it until either Saturday or Sunday.

 

I will be at my Son's house this weekend so I may not be readily available, good luck and keep us posted.

 

Alright, so I went outside real quick because it was pouring the rain. I checked and there is in fact a 10 amp fuse in the #9 slot. Then I went back out and checked the wires at the pump and whenever the key is turned on I am getting 12 volts. (I haven’t checked during cranking because I don’t want to jump the relay in the pouring rain)

 

If you have 12 volts key on, and a good ground, the pump is probably dead.

 

1st, there should not be constant power at the fuel pump, the shutdown control module prevents this, the wire for the sending unit will have power with the key on.

 

Whenever I turn the key on it turns 12 volts for a few seconds and drops to 0 like it's supposed to. So that's probably my pump isn't it?