[NAJ]

I contacted a member who has Alldata to see if he can locate the TSB which will show us the location of the pump and wiring.

 

[4 L-bodies]

From everything I read the pump was placed inline in front of the fuel tank.

Not real familiar with the NA cars, but very familiar with L-bodies. Pump location could be where factory external pump would have been on the turbo L-bodies. Bolted to sub-frame. Very close to the fuel filter on the right front end of the fuel tank. Should be easy to see after you have the car raised. Wiring could have been incorporated into all the L-body harnesses. They had to have a ground and sending unit wire for the fuel gauge, so what's one more wire? Could be fuse #9 on the fuse block. That is what the turbo cars used.
Looking at the picture you sent, it looks like the fuel pump in in-tank, esp. if your not seeing it within a foot of that picture.
I personally drop the tank whenever I need to change out the pump assembly, however it can be removed without dropping the tank entirely. Your would need to remove right rear tire. Loosening the two gas tank straps allows you to remove the filler tube. If you have under 3/4's of tank of fuel, after removing the filler neck, you can easily siphon out the fuel out of tank into some fuel can(s). Disconnecting the fuel lines from the sender, and either remove the tank as an assembly, or remove the sender out of the tank. Like I said, I ALWAYS drop the tank in it's entirety, as I find it much easier to R&R the assembly that way. I also always replace the filler tube grommet as they can be easily damaged when removing the filler tube. If you do drop the tank, make sure you disconnect the vapor line that is connected at the top of the tank. Just disconnect at the frame rail where the hard fuel lines are. I would not touch the roll-over valve in the top of the tank, as they are prone to breaking when you try to remove them. Replacing valve and grommet is "iffy" as the original is NS1 and replacements may not fit great.

 

[Sebastian_D]

Not real familiar with the NA cars, but very familiar with L-bodies. Pump location could be where factory external pump would have been on the turbo L-bodies. Bolted to sub-frame. Very close to the fuel filter on the right front end of the fuel tank. Should be easy to see after you have the car raised. Wiring could have been incorporated into all the L-body harnesses. They had to have a ground and sending unit wire for the fuel gauge, so what's one more wire? Could be fuse #10 on the fuse block. That is what the turbo cars used.
Looking at the picture you sent, it looks like the fuel pump in in-tank, esp. if your not seeing it within a foot of that picture.
I personally drop the tank whenever I need to change out the pump assembly, however it can be removed without dropping the tank entirely. Your would need to remove right rear tire. Loosening the two gas tank straps allows you to remove the filler tube. If you have under 3/4's of tank of fuel, after removing the filler neck, you can easily siphon out the fuel out of tank into some fuel can(s). Disconnecting the fuel lines from the sender, and either remove the tank as an assembly, or remove the sender out of the tank. Like I said, I ALWAYS drop the tank in it's entirety, as I find it much easier to R&R the assembly that way. I also always replace the filler tube grommet as they can be easily damaged when removing the filler tube. If you do drop the tank, make sure you disconnect the vapor line that is connected at the top of the tank. Just disconnect at the frame rail where the hard fuel lines are. I would not touch the roll-over valve in the top of the tank, as they are prone to breaking when you try to remove them. Replacing valve and grommet is "iffy" as the original is NS1 and replacements may not fit great.

I got to looking at it and there are extra wires in the photo I posted. The fuel pump as far as I can tell is in the tank. The fuel filter is under the hood and not even 6 inches away from the carb. I tried getting the lock ring off but it was so rusted so that after 4 hours of beating on it it still didn't budge. I found a specialty tool for the lock ring to order then I'll be able to check.

 

[NAJ]

Here is what was sent (Thanks to Bill Vose )apparently it is an intank pump.
It was sent as a PDF but I have no idea how to post a PDF to the forum so I converted it to JPG.
I did not yet have a chance to read over the entire bulletin but I would start by checking power and ground at the pump.

 

[NAJ]

 

[Sebastian_D]

Here is what was sent (Thanks to Bill Vose )apparently it is an intank pump.
It was sent as a PDF but I have no idea how to post a PDF to the forum so I converted it to JPG.
I did not yet have a chance to read over the entire bulletin but I would start by checking power and ground at the pump.

View attachment 287715 View attachment 287716 View attachment 287717 View attachment 287718 View attachment 287719 View attachment 287720 View attachment 287721 View attachment 287722 View attachment 287723 View attachment 287724

So would the pump be where I was trying to take the lock ring off the side of the tank?

 

[4 L-bodies]

So would the pump be where I was trying to take the lock ring off the side of the tank?

Yes the pump in in the tank. Do yourself a favor and drop the tank as suggested so you're not standing on your head trying to repair this. This is far easier working with gravity than against it. Be VERY careful when hitting that lock ring, This would be a very bad time to be creating sparks. FSM suggests brass or non ferrous metal tool when removing or replacing the lock ring.

 

[Sebastian_D]

Yes the pump in in the tank. Do yourself a favor and drop the tank as suggested so you're not standing on your head trying to repair this. This is far easier working with gravity than against it. Be VERY careful when hitting that lock ring, This would be a very bad time to be creating sparks. FSM suggests brass or non ferrous metal tool when removing or replacing the lock ring.

So what are the steps for dropping the tank? (I am using a jack and 2 jack stands on gravel and have experience with everything but fuel tanks )

 

[85lebaront2]

It probably is, here is the TSB covering it:

 

[85lebaront2]

So what are the steps for dropping the tank? (I am using a jack and 2 jack stands on gravel and have experience with everything but fuel tanks )

I usually run the fasteners as far as they will go without coming off. If you take the supply line loose you should be able to drain the tank partially.

I have a Walker transmission jack I use for the final removal as it has a flat plate with tilt adjustments.

 

[Sebastian_D]

I usually run the fasteners as far as they will go without coming off. If you take the supply line loose you should be able to drain the tank partially.

I have a Walker transmission jack I use for the final removal as it has a flat plate with tilt adjustments.

Instead of a transmission jack could I use a normal floor jack with a 2x4 ratchet strapped onto it?

 

[85lebaront2]

A square piece of maybe 1/2" plywood will work better as whatever you are using has to fit between the tank hanger straps so it will come down without getting hung up on them. Take the filler neck loose at the pocket so it won't hang up also.

 

[Sebastian_D]

A square piece of maybe 1/2" plywood will work better as whatever you are using has to fit between the tank hanger straps so it will come down without getting hung up on them. Take the filler neck loose at the pocket so it won't hang up also.

So should I disconnect the filler neck from the tank or the car?

 

[NAJ]

I would not be dropping the tank until you have verified power and ground to the pump.

 

[85lebaront2]

So should I disconnect the filler neck from the tank or the car?

From the car, it won't come out of the tank with the tank installed.

 

[Sebastian_D]

I would not be dropping the tank until you have verified power and ground to the pump.

If It did happen to be a power issue could I run wires directly to the battery and just use a switch to turn it on or does it not have a return hose?

 

[NAJ]

If It did happen to be a power issue could directly run wires to the battery and just use a switch to turn it on or does it not have a return hose?

You do not want to do that, here is why, let me explain... the fuel injected vehicles use an ASD Relay (Automatic Shutdown) which supplies power to the fuel pump, injectors, coil, for this relay to stay actuated the engine controller needs to see a crank/rpm and fuel sync signal (turbo cars) or it will not actuate the ASD Relay.
This is done for safety reasons, should you get into an accident where the engine stops running but they key is still on the ASD Relay will cut power to the fuel pump, coil and injectors to prevent a fire.
Should you get into an accident where the engine shuts off and the key is still on using a toggle switch and direct battery voltage to the fuel pump the pump will continue to run and that could lead to a fire, we do not want that.

Looking over the TSB, they are using an Auto Shutdown Control Module that should be wire tied to an existing harness under the dash by the steering column, the circuit is also fused, according to the TSB it should be Cavity 9 of the Fuse Block.
Power for the fuel pump comes from the ignition switch through fuse #9 then to the control module, they added a GY/BK wire from the control module to the bulkhead connector cavity #30 which is running to the - coil terminal, that is where they are picking up the crank/rpm signal for the control module to know the engine is being cranked/running.
They added a fuse in Cavity 9 of the Fuse Block which was empty before the upgrade.

According to the wiring the fuse is before the module so you should be able to check for power in and out of the fuse with just the key on.

Now that you are thoroughly confused...
I will ask you to check for power at the fuel pump connector, you will have to crank the engine to do this so you will need a helper or use a long jumper wire connected to the fuel pump power feed at the tank and connect a 12 volt test lamp (the probe) to the other end and the clip to a known good ground, this way the test lamp will be with you and you can see if you have power while cranking.

To sum it up for now...
Check for power at the fuel pump connector, if power is present verify the ground is connected/secure.
Post Back
If power is not present, check Fuse #9 (10 amp) to see if it is open and if the fuse is ok, is there power present at the fuse?
Post Back

I am not even going to speculate on any of this as far as anymore "What If's", 1st thing that must be answered is...
Is power present at the pump? Yes or No

 

[Sebastian_D]

You do not want to do that, here is why, let me explain... the fuel injected vehicles use an ASD Relay (Automatic Shutdown) which supplies power to the fuel pump, injectors, coil, for this relay to stay actuated the engine controller needs to see a crank/rpm and fuel sync signal (turbo cars) or it will not actuate the ASD Relay.
This is done for safety reasons, should you get into an accident where the engine stops running but they key is still on the ASD Relay will cut power to the fuel pump, coil and injectors to prevent a fire.
Should you get into an accident where the engine shuts off and the key is still on using a toggle switch and direct battery voltage to the fuel pump the pump will continue to run and that could lead to a fire, we do not want that.

Looking over the TSB, they are using an Auto Shutdown Control Module that should be wire tied to an existing harness under the dash by the steering column, the circuit is also fused, according to the TSB it should be Cavity 9 of the Fuse Block.
Power for the fuel pump comes from the ignition switch through fuse #9 then to the control module, they added a GY/BK wire from the control module to the bulkhead connector cavity #30 which is running to the - coil terminal, that is where they are picking up the crank/rpm signal for the control module to know the engine is being cranked/running.
They added a fuse in Cavity 9 of the Fuse Block which was empty before the upgrade.

According to the wiring the fuse is before the module so you should be able to check for power in and out of the fuse with just the key on.

Now that you are thoroughly confused...
I will ask you to check for power at the fuel pump connector, you will have to crank the engine to do this so you will need a helper or use a long jumper wire connected to the fuel pump power feed at the tank and connect a 12 volt test lamp (the probe) to the other end and the clip to a known good ground, this way the test lamp will be with you and you can see if you have power while cranking.

To sum it up for now...
Check for power at the fuel pump connector, if power is present verify the ground is connected/secure.
Post Back
If power is not present, check Fuse #9 (10 amp) to see if it is open and if the fuse is ok, is there power present at the fuse?
Post Back

I am not even going to speculate on any of this as far as anymore "What If's", 1st thing that must be answered is...
Is power present at the pump? Yes or No
View attachment 287734

I will check the car this weekend when I'm in Harlan. I looked at the diagram and do I need a starter relay to check it? I have been jumping the relay when I have been cranking it because it's messed up. If I need one I'll gladly buy it but for now, I don't have one. It was cranking last year but then the relay messed up so I've been jumping it for the past few months.

 

[NAJ]

Why do you feel you may need a starter relay?

 

[Sebastian_D]

Why do you feel you may need a starter relay?

I don't know. I just saw it on the diagram and I didn't know if the relay also was required on the circuit.