I think any of the forged pistons available are fine, Wiseco have very thin rings that are normally included.

Some are available with larger pins.

I think most aftermarket rods are actually for 2.4's and require 2.4 bearings.

The difference is small but the tangs are in a different spot to keep from using 2.2 bearings by mistake.

I don't think aftermarket rods are any better but that's just my opinion, and everyone has one of them!!

Thanks
Randy

 

I have used both Wiseco and Venolia forged pistons. Both are high quality products. As mentioned above the Wiseco pistons use a different ring and the cylinder wall to piston clearance requirements are a little different. You can run the Wiseco piston a little tighter than the Venolia so they rattle a bit less when the engine is cold. I would say that warmed up performance is the same...at least to my ear it is.

 

If I was going to make a 500hp, I'd use a cast 2.2L crack, stock TII rods, and whatever brand forged pistons. I would only use aftermarket rods if I to keep down the rotation mass.

I only made 290whp and trapped 110mph with no plan of making more as driving at the street even with 290whp is a handful without drag radial.

 

Diamond, Ross, Venolia, JE, Wiseco, all make a good piston for our engines. IMO, Venolia pistons seem to be very old technology. While other piston manufacturers usually incorporate technology changes, their ring pack, design, might as well be from 1985 (lol). Robust, but heavy. JE's are almost always lighter than everyone else's. I have a set of JE's for a Masi 16V application. Asymmetrical design, very tight ring pack, very light, upgraded pin and rings were available options. They made me what I wanted, as opposed to making me something they thought would be best. Ross used to take FOREVER to make custom pistons so I gave up on them. I can't wait 6 months for a piston order, EVER! Diamond while nice, seem to have issues getting what you want. About half of all my Diamond piston orders either had to be remade or sent back and re-machined! Made correctly, they are very good too. My experience suggests operator error is a very real deal with Diamond. My opinion, JE's best bang for buck. Wiseco's use a ring design that locks you into using their rings. A very good piston though.

I differ from the others in that I won't use a late TI/TII/TIII/TIV rod unless I know it's history. I've seen to many TII rods that have been around the block one to many times. Spending $200+ resizing 30 year old rods, when you can get a NEW, stronger, lighter, better hardware, 4340 forged, CNC'd, perfectly balanced & weighted, better pin oiling, current technology rod for a bit more is money well spent in my book. Most of the H beam designs are around 100 grams lighter, yet stronger than a TII rod. Manley, Brian Crower, Eagle, K1, MAP performance, etc. all sell very nice rods with many options to fit many budgets. H beam, I beam, X beam, upgraded hardware, 7/16" rod hardware, are all options for these SRT4 rods. There also seems to be more bearing options for the SRT rods too. Most are import forgings, machined in US, but some are 100% North America product. The BC rods are my choice for best bang for buck. EVERY BC rod I've bought have been dead on as far as machining. They have at least three different offerings for SRT rods. The Sportman BC6169 being the cheapest.

 

So will SRT4 rods work with a 2.2 crank with the right bearings?

 

The SRT rod uses a .866 pin. Stock 8V TD stuff is .901 pin. Cindy at FWD sells a BC rod but with a larger small end (.912 pin) to match her Venolia pistons. The .912 is a very common small block Ford pin. The 16V Masi uses a .866 pin, so the SRT rod is a direct bolt in for that application. If your ordering custom pistons it is an easy change to order pistons with .866 or whatever pin you want/need. The .866 pin is also a very common size pin. Aside from that, the center to center distance, big end, and rod width are all the same. So yes, the SRT rods fit the crank perfectly with of course the correct bearings. It is just the small end that is different.

 

the rods come in two configurations
one set used the neon bearings or whatever and the other set use a 2.2 bearing

check the listings on the fwd and tu sites

I somehow don't think brand name on the box means to much theses daysas it seems all the aftermarket rods look very much the same regardless of what they fit

 

I understand what you are saying though, but those high end manufacturers (Palter, Cunningham, Oliver, Carillo, GRP, MAP, Manley, etc.) would cringe if they heard you say that (lol)! The MAP ultimate X beam rod are quite unique if you ask me. In fact, all those I just mentioned are pretty unique, along with being sort of spendy.

 

I like seeing all the neat custom stuff that's been machined for these motors over the years. I saw there was a TIII crank available that holds up to 800 horsepower. Wasn't there a titanium crank available for a while? I can't remember who's site I saw it on.

 

As usual, Todd posts contain very good info.

Although stock rods are old they aren't really a failure point in my experience.

My experience doesn't come close to Todds so I take his info to the T-D bank!!

I don't think the T-III crank is any better but the Masi is fully counterweighted.

I'd love to try one of those but will probably never get the chance.

Any pics of one Todd??

Do they have the rolled radius that contributes our stock cranks strength?

Thanks
Randy

 

Masi as in 16V Masi only? Or did they put a different crank in the TIIs that were in the 89s?

 

I run TII/TIII/TIV cranks in 16V Masi applications. Masi cranks are too heavy and they have an unusual rod journal diameter.
Randy here is a pic of the Masi crank & rods.

 

Was the '89 Maserati TII equipped with the weird crank? Is that crank even forged?

 

Couple pics of current design masi JE pistons and older tech masi pistons. New pistons, pins, and rods are like 200 grams X 4 cylinders lighter than originals!

 

I love the look of the JE pistons. Is there a picture anywhere with the forged pistons side by side. Weisco,JE and Venolia? Also what about the weight differences of the 3? Which ones have the piston slap until they are warmed up? I was told it was Venolia and Weisco Then I heard Venolia and JE. Which is it?

 

Sorry no pics of what you requested. It is my opinion that the piston to wall clearance your machinist chose will be more of a factor of noise when cold than forged piston brand. They probably are all 2618 alloy. The Venolia pistons recommend unusually large piston to wall, so they are the ones that will sound like a diesel until they warm up if you set piston to wall by their recommendations of .005-.007. I have used .004 with no issues on the Venolia's. You can also set them too tight. This pic is from "Nascar expert rebuilder" in my area that tried to rebuild local members 2.2 years ago. This was 10 minutes run time on motor. This was tip of iceberg when I pulled this engine apart. Everything was dead wrong! I think the aluminum rods were salvageable.

 

If I were putting together a 500+HP engine I would look to see what the quickest turbododgers are running and compare. I know Stefan Beauregard (8.04@174MPH) has always run the Wiseco pistons without issues. Anyone know what Brian Slowe (8.91 @ 156.83mph) is running for pistons?

Ben

 

A lot changes in piston design as the years roll by. Whether or not it gets filtered down to our ancient engines is another thing entirely. It seems like not all manufacturers or vendors keep updating to current trends, instead some just keep reproducing 30 year old designs. Just look at the difference in the Masi pistons pics I posted. For me it's just personal preference (based on past manufacturing successes or blunders), option availability, lead time, and cost. Name on piston is least important to me. I have faith in all the current available choices for forged pistons (if they're machined correctly). As mentioned before, they're all pretty much 2618 alloy for our turbo engine applications.